File talk:Flag of Malaysia.svg

Flag does not match construction sheet

{{Edit request}}
Please replace File:Flag of Malaysia.svg with File:Flag of Malaysia - fixed.svg

This file (File:Flag of Malaysia.svg) does not match the construction sheet (File:Construction sheet of Flag of Malaysia.svg). For reference, the construction sheet is laid out with a 28×14 invisible grid; thus 1 unit equals 1/14 the width of the flag.

• The width of the moon at its centre should be 1 unit. Measurements taken from File:Flag of Malaysia.svg show about 1.1 units.
• The star should fit into a circle of diameter 5 units. Measurements taken from File:Flag of Malaysia.svg show 5.00 units vertically and 5.12 horizontally. The discrepancy comes from a non-uniform transform matrix in which the 1st and 4th matrix elements are not equal: matrix(1.2737922,0,0,1.2422928,-89.4427,-29.478379).
• The star should have an inner diameter of 2 units. Measurements taken from File:Flag of Malaysia.svg show 2.35 horizontally and 2.30 vertically.

The replacement file (File:Flag of Malaysia - fixed.svg) is generated programmaticly and should be accurate to 0.00208333 of a unit (where 1 unit is still 1/14 the width of the flag). Other changes in the new file:

• Nominal dimensions changed from 2800×1400 to 1200×600.
• Overlap added add the horizontal transition between blue and red. Specifically the blue rectangle extends underneath the red stripe to ensure that white never bleeds though from behind.

MapGrid (talk) 04:11, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

•  Agree -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 11:19, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

 Done Awesome! Thank you! -- User: Perhelion 14:11, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

The construction sheet may be wrong

@MapGrid, Tuvalkin, and Perhelion: File:Construction sheet of Flag of Malaysia.svg states the inner diameter of the crescent is 5 1/3 units. But the official construction sheet did not state that, see [1] and [2]. I think the distance between the tips of the crescent should also be 5 units. But the current one is only 4.875 units. To fix this you may change in line 10 of the code "m-600 30a1280 1280 0 1 0 0 2340 1440 1440 0 1 1 0-2340z" to "m-644 0a1288 1288 0 1 0 0 2400 1440 1440 0 1 1 0-2400z".--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 08:11, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

It is always a problem when a country provides specifications with sloppy drawings and missing details. I am not convinced that anybody knows what the inner diameter or the crescent is supposed to be.

Some notes and questions on the documents provided my Mike Rohsopht:

1. lambang_kebesaran_negara.pdf:

• This appears to be the official government document describing the flag.
• Page 12 shows an image with the following qualities:

-The flag is stretched vertically.

-The bottom white stripe is a different width than the others.

-The inner radius of the star is wrong.

-Some of the star tips are truncated.

-The outer arc of the crescent is either poorly positioned or has the wrong diameter (or both). It is hard to tell due to the stretching.

How does one trust the standards when the image in the official documentation does not align with the standards in the same publication?

• Page 17 shows a specification drawing with the following features:

-Outer arc of crescent does not properly intersect with dimension lines.

-Some of the outer star tips are truncated.

-Some of the inner star tips do not touch the dimensioning circle.

-It is generally a sloppy drawing which is not precise enough for the purpose of measurements.

2. NATIONAL-FLAG-OF-MALAYSIA.pdf

• Is the hand drawn image in NATIONAL-FLAG-OF-MALAYSIA.pdf supposed to be part of an original flag specification?
• Who drew it and when? I ask because the drawing has no title and the document is not housed on the the Government of Malaysia website.
• If the points on the crescent were supposed to be 5 units apart, then why do the horizontal dimensioning lines not extend leftwards to touch the tips of the crescent?

In spite of the poor quality of the drawings, I will agree that in the drawing on page 17 of lambang_kebesaran_negara.pdf, the tips of the crescent appear to fall either on or close to the dimensioning lines that mark the top and bottom of the star. It is not possible to ascertain from the drawing if the tips were supposed to touch the dimensioning lines because the drawing is just too sloppy.

For fun, here is a comparison table showing different interpretations of the spec:

Interpretations of specifications for the crescent on the Flag of Malaysia

	radius of outer arc	radius of inner arc	horizontal distance between arc centers	vertical distance between the two points on the crescent
government publications	3	not defined	not defined	not explicitly defined; must be a number close to (or equal to) 5
Wikimedia Commons	3	2.66666666666667	0.66666666666667	4.87339717240448
Mike's interpretation	3	2.6833752096446	0.6833752096446	5.0000000000000
Flags of the World (FOTW)	3	2.75	0.75	5.3748384988657
Vexilla Mundi	3	2.625	0.625	4.47213595499958

I don't expect anybody to tell us what is right and what is wrong. I will say that if I was a 7 year old school boy tasked to draw the flag with a pencil and compass, I would not want to be setting my compass to 2.6833752096446 units. MapGrid (talk) 23:44, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I agree that those publications do not give enough information. I think the current version is accurate enough for the given specifications. Therefore I will not seek further changes. But I will remove the 5 1/3 in the construction sheet.--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 08:21, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Mike,

I do not think that removing the 5${\tfrac {1}{3}}$ label from File:Construction sheet of Flag of Malaysia.svg was the best approach.

I believe that if a construction sheet exists on Wikimedia commons, it should contain enough information to recreate the flag that it is supposed to represent. Therefore we should always maintain enough information in File:Construction sheet of Flag of Malaysia.svg to recreate File:Flag of Malaysia.svg.

I did a bit more digging. Version #1 of File:Construction sheet of Flag of Malaysia.svg was uploaded in 2009 by user:白布飘扬; the source for the construction sheet appears to be an official government drawing which can still be found in a web archive:[3]

This particular government drawing (which appears to have been done with a pencil, ruler and compass) is much better than all the other government drawings that I was able to find on the web.

1. It is drawn pretty much to scale
2. The star is the correct shape and size; it is roughly where it is supposed to be.
3. The outer arc on the crescent is a true arc and appears to be in the correct place.

However, as with all the other government drawings, there is no label for the radius or diameter of the inner arc of the crescent. This implies that user:白布飘扬 must have measured the diameter of the inner arc from the drawing.

I took the drawing and I superimposed it on top of File:Flag of Malaysia.svg (using Inkscape). After playing around with it for a bit, I determined that the inner arc in the drawing has a diameter of roughly 5.34 drawing units. This close enough to 5${\tfrac {1}{3}}$ for all intensive purposes.

Moving forward I would suggest that we:

1. Restore the 5${\tfrac {1}{3}}$ label to the construction sheet.
2. Document the source of the 5${\tfrac {1}{3}}$ measurement in the construction sheet's description. I am willing to to this myself (but not today).MapGrid (talk) 03:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

@Mike Rohsopht: For better or for worse, I have uploaded a new construction sheet (File:Flag of Malaysia (construction sheet).svg) that does show the value 5${\tfrac {1}{3}}$ for the diameter of the arc. I explicitly documented where this value comes from in the Source section of the infobox. MapGrid (talk) 00:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@MapGrid: 👍--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 03:58, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Even in the case where a flag spec is underdefined/missing necessary information, I'd still question whether the role of a construction sheet here should be to facilitate the recreation of a fully determined version of the flag, or to simply represent what the relevant authorities have said about the specs. JPD (talk) 06:47, 23 November 2021 (UTC)