File talk:Flag of Venezuela.svg

I got an email from Venezuela that said: "The mass media finally is confirmed the notice about the possible change of Patriot Symbols of Venezuela. The mass media have reviewed bruptly in some cases that National Assembly approved on first discussion the reform of the Law of National Flag, Coat of Arms and Anthem by means of which would be added eighth star to National Flag and would change the position of the horse (most controversial matter) of the National CoA in addition of which would be included the legend "Republica Bolivariana" ("Bolivarian Republic") as a part of the motto (the tricolor pennants with inscriptions), everything which takes place as a result of the initiative of president Chavez."

This same flag was brought before the VE people in 1999, but soundly rejected, but now, look like it passed. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 14:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

And what exactly does the CoA look like now? We still haven't got that in the new flag... —Nightstallion (?) 20:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The word that I received is that major changes were made: the horse on the arms changed directions, the ribbon has changed a lot and other new details. I do not have a picture of the news arms to use, let alone trace, but the email I got was from a vexillologist from Venezuela (who really, really hates the change). Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 01:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

nods Good luck with finding it, then! —Nightstallion (?) 07:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Saludos desde Venezuela. I disapprove the change made on the file of the flag because, it haven't been officially changed until the second discussion, but, doesn't matter now. About the horse, as I’m located in Venezuela, i think, when the change happens, I’ll be able to find a correct image of the position of the horse that i can send to someone who could put it in the CoA. Would someone be able to do it?. Thanks and cya. Venex 20:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC) sorry for my english

Sí, claro. Simplemente envia el escudo a Zach. —Nightstallion (?) 20:19, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, someone will be able to do it. I wouldn't be surprised if Zscout will get a copy of the new emblem and possibly do it himself (though others here wouldn't mind doing the work). ¦ Reisio 20:53, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I have not received the new coat of arms yet, and Venex is right that it has not been adopted yet, but I will not be surprised that the change is coming. (I'm in the USA, so when I hear about the change, I will hear about it through my contacts in Caracas). Emailing me also works too, but just let me know this is Commons related in the subject header, please. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 07:31, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The flag

This flag is really horrible, the official flag of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela has seven stars, not eight!!, and also its has the Coat of arms in the top straight part, on the other hand the strident colors stop much that to wish, they look at this flag, and try to compare it with the version svg. Regards. --Oscar . 17:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC) PD:See Laws of the national flag in Venezuela in Spanish

Not anymore, I'm afraid. Chávez lo cambió. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 20:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I am still waiting on word on an official adoption, but the change is still going to take place. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 00:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know much about this subject but according to the venezuelan law, only the merchant navy would use this flag with the national colors and seven stars (not eight), so it seems this isn't the traditional flag. Anna 03:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not, it is the flag that is being changed to. We have the older version floating around here somewhere with the 7 stars. I also know that the state authorities use this flag, but my friend was able to a similar flag, around 8x10 inches, easily in Caracas. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 04:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Correction, yes, this is the merchant and civil flag of the country. I intend to add the arms to the flag, but a new coat of arms is being designed, so I have to wait and see what the new design is before I trace it in Inkscape. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 04:09, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

TWIMC — the old one is at Image:Flag of Venezuela 1930-2006.svg. ¦ Reisio 07:00, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Designated by who?, governmental authorities use a flag with eight stars? Where? In South :::Pacific maybe, not in Venezuela

the venezuelan law dates his flag since 1954, not of 2006.

The Hypothetical change has to happen for a series of directives and be discussed in the national :::Congress, a flag cannot change overnight. Regards from Caracas – Venezuela.--Oscar . 15:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

So when is the next debate about the VE flag is supposed to take place? Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 19:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

There's no much information here in the country about the change, the second discussion of the project haven't take place at the Congress and we don't have a confirmed date. Regards from Vzla. Venex 14:17, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

http://www.el-carabobeno.com/p_pag_not.aspx?art=a230206e14&id=t230206-e14 is something worth reading too. The adoption is not official yet, but the debate is getting closer. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Stars

As of 2006-02-09 the official flag of Venezuela has 7 (seven) stars. You can't (well, apparently you can, but you shouldn't) go on putting false information in the Wikipedias just to "save time". If you want to prepare it to have it ready when/if the law project becomes law, put it under other name (for example, "Proposed flag of Venezuela.svg"). I am amazed at the lack of rigor of the people here. --Angus 10:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

And preparing for the (obvious, according to my sources) flag change was all that I was doing. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 14:57, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

What you did was making thousands of articles accross mediawiki projects to display a false flag, rendering the articles themselves false. I wonder whether you don't realize this, or just don't care. --Angus 16:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

No stars?

Sorry for disturbing...but can anyone explain why the version of the Venezuelan flag currently being used here doesn't have any stars at all?? I was looking at other Wikipedia articles and I noticed this weird change, which I find very strange and unrealistic. Even if in Venezuelan law the flag may be "defined" like this, all the official and civilian flags of Venezuelan that I've seen in real life have the stars, so I don't understand this...even less so when the articles that show this "starless flag" have plenty of photos with the normal flag, so I don't think that this flag properly represents Venezuela, but instead causes confusion. I have also never seen this version of the flag used like that in real life encyclopedias either. So I don't think that it is fair to make this change to this file, which is affecting how the flag looks in many Wikipedia articles, where the correct flag should be used, in spite of whatever technicalities might exist. Thanks. Kusaja 20:46, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I never encounted any star-less flags myself, but as for right now, the flag officially is still 7 stars and charged with the CoA at the top, right hoist area. Bastique did a good job on fixing the image (Inkscape kept on crashing on me when I was fixing it up). I hope this will be the last problems we have with this flag until whatever happens down in VE becomes factual information, not press fodder (that I relied on). User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 21:47, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

think should be good to rewiew the law. Bye. Guillermo Romero ^[@] 16:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The problem is not with the "law" and its technicalities, Guillermo, but with the real life practice and the effects that this specific "starless" image is having in all the articles which link to it. The fact is that the flag, as described in "the law" (supposing that this law is the only important one and is up to date, since right now Guillermo is only providing an online link, and he is the one doing this "new interpretation"), isn't the one used in real life, nor in academic publications or encyclopedias. Why should a flag without stars represent Venezuela in all of the linked Wikipedia articles? A flag without stars might have represented Venezuela in 1811, and is historically important, but it doesn't represent Venezuela in 2006. An encyclopedia that uses such a flag is not a serious encyclopedia.Kusaja 20:08, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Before answering, Kuaja, should be good to know that I've entered because a petition of venezuelan wikipidians of W:ES that thought their flag was not well drown in here. Any way, is a non serios guidline follow the law? Should be good realize that while law was not metioned in here concordy was not catched. And it's true that many venezuelans use the civil ensing instead the civil flag, but any way we have the Image:Ensign of Venezuela.svg, so there's no tragedy in here. Any way, tt's supposed that each Wikipedia should have an article "Flag of Venezuela" where all that fact should be explained, the law and the street, but we need a base. I think nothing's resting seriousness. ANy way, you've reverted the flag to the state flag, but we have Image:Flag of Venezuela (state).svg. That flag should be civil flag by default (See:Commons:WikiProject Flags). Bye. Guillermo Romero ^[@] 20:54, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

At FOTW, the assement is that 3 flags are existing, the civil flag (tribar without stars), the merchant flag (tribar w/ stars) and the state flag (tribar w/ stars and CoA). From what I have seen in VE, I never seen the plain tribar at all, so what I can suggest is that we say that this drawing is of the merchant ensign, and the state flag can be seen here and the state flag is seen there. I suggest for WP, we use ther merchant ensign, since the civil flag looks close to the national flag of Colombia, and as I see on FOTW and on here, the civil flag is pretty much never used. (http://www.atlasgeo.net/fotw/flags/ve.html) User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 22:22, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

It's Official

I got this in my inbox: Cilia Flores, President of the Commission for Domestic Policy of the National Assembly, announced on 1 March 2006 that the national flag will eight stars will be hoisted on 12 March, the National Flag Day, following the reform of the Law on the National Flag, Shield and Anthem.The reform will be submitted to a big national referendum on 3 and 4 March. The source used in this note to FOTW was from El Nacional - 2 March 2006 User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The article link: [1] User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 07:50, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The emails you get are not “Official”. A newspaper article (btw, blank page on the other side of your link) is not “Official”. Tip: watch this page: http://www.asambleanacional.gov.ve/ns2/leyes.asp?id=722 . When the proposed flag is “Official”, it will appear there. --Angus 11:52, 4 March 2006 (UTC) PS: your “news” before tergiversation: [2].

From reading this proposed law, I noticed that the civil flag is not mentioned once. It is legally being dropped, since the Merchant flag or the National flag can be used by the civilian population? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 16:50, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

It is mentioned, at least once. Here is the original article 3, and after that, I'll attempt to translate it, marking in bold the part where the mention occurs.

“Artículo 3. Se modifica el artículo 2 de le Ley en los siguientes términos:

”Artículo 2. La Bandera Nacional es la que adoptó el Congreso de la República en 1811, formada por los colores amarillo, azul y rojo, en franjas unidas, iguales y horizontales, en el orden que queda expresado, de superior a inferior. La Bandera Nacional que usarán la Presidencia de la República y la Fuerza Armada Nacional, así como la que se enarbole en los Edificios Públicos Nacionales, Estadales y Municipales, llevará el Escudo de Armas de la República Bolivariana de Venezuela en el extremo de la franja amarilla cercano al asta y, en medio del azul, ocho estrellas blancas de cinco puntas, colocadas en arco de círculo con la convexidad hacia arriba. La Bandera Nacional usada por la Marina Mercante sólo llevará las ocho estrellas.”

Translation:

“Article 3. Article 2 of the law is to be modified as follows:

“Article 2. The National Flag is the one adopted by the Congress of the Republic in 1811, having the colors yellow, blue and red, in jointed(?) horizontal strips of equal size, in the order they were mentioned, from top to bottom. The National Flag to be used by the Presidency of the Republic and the National Armed Force, as well as the one to be hoisted on National, State and Municipal Public Buildings, will carry the Coat of Arms of the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela in the yellow strip's end closest to the staff, and, on the middle of the blue, eight white five-pointed stars, arranged in an arc of circle with upwards convexity. The National Flag to be used by the Merchant Navy will only carry the eight stars.”

There. I think you can extract the key words from the labyrinthic and badly translated first sentence. --Angus 20:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

So, the national flag will be the yellow, blue and red flag? If that is the case, then once the official change happens, we should probably use the merchant flag as the flag used on Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects, since the "national flag" will look too smiliar to the Colombia flag. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 01:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Protection

The flag is protected until people have cooled down and found a solution. Arnomane 19:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

http://www.asambleanacional.gov.ve/ns2/leyes.asp?id=722 User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 02:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

What does this say? Nothing. At least it is not clear to me which flag gets used when. And even if the 8 star flag gets used it is never a reason to make an edit war at this flag here. In that case create a second flag and give in the explanation a reasonable explanation of the differences and link each flag to each other (Hint: Look at Template:Information). And I hate it if people throw links without explicit explanation (by the way I can't speak spanish). So until you have not sorted it out in detail I will keep it protected. Arnomane 10:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

At the bottom of the page, it shows the new symbols of Venezuela, which have been in use since March 12 (ironically, flag day in the country). The arms also changed, but the anthem has not. The national flag, which is also the merchant flag, is a tricolor, horizontally, yellow, blue and red, with the blue section charged with 8, 5 pointed, white stars in a semi circle pattern. The state flag has the arms, and the no star version of the flag has been scrapped. While I am not able to draw a state flag because the arms renditions I found so far are shoddy, a civil/merchant flag can be drawn easily (I just need that fire lit so I can get motivated to draw it). Since the colors are also used too in this flag, we could use the websafe colors of 255-255-000, 000-000-255, and 255-000-000 and 255-255-255. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 06:52, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Trying to make a conclussion

Siteticaly, recent law says that the Bandera Nacional is a triband depicted with eight stars and that the República Bolivariana de Venezuela (i.e. Venezuelan State) uses the Bandera Nacional with the Coat of Arms depicted on the top to left corner as its flag. So two flags are used in Venezuela.

Now, I propose these in the info section:

Summary Español: Bandera Nacional de Venezuela. Véase también Image:Flag of Venezuela (state).svg para ver la variante usada por el Estado venezolano (la República Bolivariana de Venezuela). English: Flag of Venezuela. See also Image:Flag of Venezuela (state).svg for the flag used by Venezuelan state (the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela). Source Español: Hecho por www, publicado en xxx, subido por yyy y modificado por zzz. English: Made by www, published in xxx, uploaded by yyy, modified by zzz. Licensing [You know]

By the way, can somebody upload Image:Civil Ensign of Venezuela.svg (File:Civil Ensign of Venezuela.svg) as Flag of Venezuela.svg because of the number of stars? Guillermo Romero ^[@] 00:41, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Main page

The flag is now on the main Wikipedia page. Could anyone who knows the facts about which flag to use, either correct it, or make a comment about it on the main talk page, please? I just commented that it should have a coat of arms, and then noticed this article regarding the two flags, and I do not know which one should be shown in the main page. Perhaps both? DanielDemaret 10:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

If you consult the Flags of the World website (I think that it is www.fotw.net (but I may be wrong) it will have the new flag on it. As I understand it the Flag that is currently displayed on the first page of the English Wikipedia site is the old flag which has been superseded. It would be better if it is updated. There is after all a file on the relevant wikipage. Michael 15 March 2006 12.20 GMT

FOTW has new images they will upload for Venezuela on it's next update (Saturday). I am still trying to draw the new symbols in SVG: all I need now is the state flag to be drawn correctly. 205.153.156.221 18:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Current version

The current version of Image:Flag of Venezuela (civil).svg seems to be much more correct to me, especially when compared with Image:Flag of Venezuela (state).svg it becomes evident that the current version of this flag can't be right. I suggest that the current version at (civil) be uploaded here. —Nightstallion (?) 23:46, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll check the laws. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 00:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It's just my impression... I think that the stars of this flag are correct... but the colors are completly wrong and the ones of the "civil" flag are correct. --B1mbo 02:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

B1mbo is right: the stars are right but the colors are wrong. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return fire)} 19:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)