File talk:Modern pentathlon pictogram (pre-2025).svg

New fifth sport

Following pressure from the IOC, the UIPM has announced that riding will be replaced by an obstacle race in Modern Pentathlon after the end of the 2024 Olympic Games. Citius Altius Fortius's latest edit reflects this change.

However, the pictogram "Modern Pentathlon pictogram.svg" is currently overwhelmingly used in pages that refer to the legacy version of Modern Pentathlon with the riding event, including but not limited to all the Olympic Games from 1912 to 2024.

I believe it would be wrong to show the obstacle icon in those pages, and therefore I suggest that two different pictograms are used.

Option 1: revert this file to a version with the riding icon and create a new "Modern pentathlon pictogram (new).svg" file with the obstacle icon to be used in future pages related to the new version of Modern Pentathlon, like the 2028 Olympic Games and so on.

Option 2 (I believe this to be less straightforward): keep the obstacle race icon in this file, create a "Modern pentathlon pictogram (legacy).svg" file with the riding icon, and use some sort of bot to bulk replace the file in all the Wikipedia entries referring to Modern Pentathlon events held before August 2024.

I'd like to hear the opinion of other contributors to the Olympic pictograms, including @Affegass, Thadius856, Arvedui89, Quibik, Bearas, and Sports2021. I'll surely have forgotten somebody, please forgive that.  ᚪᛋᚦᚩᚾᛏ (Asþont)  📯 09:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure, why my opinion matters here, but I would go with the first option, possibly with "(pre 2024)" or "(pre 2025)" rather than "(legacy)", however that may be an effect of my limited knowledge f the proper usage of that term in English. In my opinion the default filename should always be the current one. Otherwise the old one will surely e used in the new articles. Aʀvєδuι ⁺ 10:30, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I have already tried to start a talk about this problem in Oct 2023 - Template_talk:GamesSport#Modern_pentathlon_-_Equstrian_sport_will_be_replaced_by_an_obstacle_race. Furthermore I have already created another pictogram "pre 2025" - [[file:modern pentathlon 1896-2024.svg|50px] and asked to move it to "modern Pentathlon 1896-2024 pictogram. I think option 2 is the better one, since "flag templates" use always the current flag without year and a previous flags with a year of its validity.Citius Altius Fortius (talk) 10:58, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

I will split the file into pre-2025 and post-2025 in a few days, that should allow both files to exist and Wikimedia projects can then decide which file they want to use. Abzeronow (talk) 14:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Dear Asþont, thx for asking – honestly the naming conventions of commons files are not my strong suit. But I tend to agree with @Citius Altius Fortius. An integrated date for the "old" pictogram should give users a clear understanding of which one would fit their need.

Apart from the naming, I'm still not content with the current way the pictogram looks. I understand the wish to include all the disciplines in one graphic, but as soon as it is not shown in a proper large size, it gets visually extremely muddled – and this is the case in most lists and tables regarding the games. And even the few official pictograms with everything included (64, 68, 12 til now) don't seem to have found good answers. In my opinion Rio kinda got it right as well as Paris (although their approach is so unique that it likely won't be replicated). tl;dr: Should we think about adapting the old horse and five indicators form for the legal pentathlon and a new one for sizes under let's say 50px? I'd like to hear your opinions on this matter.

Wish you a great week! Affegass (talk) 19:12, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

In my understanding the "old" horse and five indicators pictogram, was shown at the Equestrian venue only - at the other venues the respective "swimming", "fencing", "athletic", "shooting" with the five indicators were shown. I tend to use a pictogram which shows all five different disciplines. Citius Altius Fortius (talk) 06:25, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

I believe the 5 icons pictogram is to be preferred given the particular nature of Pentathlon. The current version is inspired to that from Tokyo 2020 which I think was really well done. Nevertheless, I think that the single figures could likely be redrawn from scratch to optimise space usage and visibility at a small size. ᚪᛋᚦᚩᚾᛏ (Asþont) 📯 14:56, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately this "history split" caused a huge anachronism mess (example: [1]). Now in really A LOT of historical olympia articles the 2025 pictrogram is used instead of the correct old one. Unfortunately you didn't check this before moving the file. I expect you to repair this on your own. Fyi: Abzeronow, Iwaqarhashmi. -- Chaddy (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Chaddy, thank you for bringing this to my attention, I'll work on fixing this throughout this weekend. Abzeronow (talk) 15:32, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. -- Chaddy (talk) 16:08, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately (as expressed in the first message in this discussion) this was to be expected, since basically all Wikipedia projects that use the File:Modern pentathlon pictogram.svg icon do this in entries that overwhelmingly refer to the 1912-2025 version of the sport. If File:Modern pentathlon pictogram.svg is kept as a redirect to File:Modern pentathlon pictogram (post-2025).svg as it currently does, this will have to be manually corrected globally(!), and will possibly never happen in some smaller projects. ᚪᛋᚦᚩᚾᛏ (Asþont) 📯 18:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Quality

Moved to File talk:Modern pentathlon pictogram (post-2025).svg